FLSA and paid multi-day leaders

Hello all - sorry I have not been around much; wish I'd made it to the last OOPS, but what can you do. I hope all are well, adequately challenged and inspired. Coming down off my Davidson basketball high, I find the Issue That Will Not Die has risen again. Here is my predicament: The Fair Labor Standards Act, which is presumably in place to protect employees from unscrupulous and wicked employers (such as myself), is being interpreted by my institution in such a way that it is now impossible for me to 'employ' student leaders in my summer orientation program. This is because we cannot afford to pay hourly plus overtime for employees in the field for 8 days, nor can we afford the minimum weekly salary option to hourly employment. However, exemptions to this law are out there and are in use by organizations that could not otherwise survive (think Outward Bound, NOLS, any residential summer camp, etc). So I need a precedent. I need to find other colleges or universities that pay backcountry leaders for multi-day trips and that do so by established exemption to Federal & possibly State labor laws. Anyone? Thanks Ed Davidson Outdoors Davidson College Union 704-894-2173

Yes - our problem is that we run those 3 sessions instead of a single big program right before orientation. We'd rather not go back to that format, having found this to be a great leader growth experience, ans so we pretty much have to compensate leaders in some way for being here that long a period.The difficulty here is getting the same exemption that summer camps have....Ed________________________________________From: Rick Curtis [bounce-Rick_Curtis@outdoored.com]Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 5:41 PMTo: Daugherty, EdSubject: RE: [College Outdoor Programs] FLSA and paid multi-day leadersEd, we went through this last summer not with paying leaders for the trip but paying the four Frosh Trip Coordinators who plan the trips. Part of their summer job requires 2 weeks on the trail at 24/7 scouting routes. I was able to convince the Controller's Office to allow us to pay students a flat rate for the summer and to pay them an hourly wage based on a 40-hour week.As you said summer camps do this all the time.Rick---------------------------------------Rick CurtisDirector, Outdoor Action ProgramPrinceton University609-258-5621http://www.princeton.edu/~oa/From the OutdoorEd.com Community http://www.outdoored.com/community

Ed, I did hear of a school in California that had to go back and pay orientation leaders for the last 3 years.  Someone from that school, or maybe someone closer to the information can share, but I remember thinking that this could have big impacts, especially in the way most OE programs are staffed.  This may be a place where we need to organize with other folks (camps, OE programs, etc.) to try to influence this law.  I think you are correct that this application does not sound like it is in-line with the spirit of the law.

Sorry I am out of the College till 29 April. Please leave a message atreception if you require an earlier response.RegardsJason Zaurs

 Ed,

 I'm in the same situation myself right now. UA Statewide has given me the same road blocks as you, but for every field day. The student leaders here at UAF lead roughly 35 field days a summer and HR claims I have to pay them a minimum of 16 hours/day and that is only if they get 8 hours of un-interrupted sleep. And they have not been helpful in finding a solution outside of paying the students. Thankfully, my director found the money for me to pay the students this year, but I still need to make a more permanent solution for the coming school year and future summers.

How many schools out there use student volunteers as trip leaders? My Risk Management Dept. won't allow volunteers due to their lack on contract and ability to walk off the job. If I can show that many other schools are doing this and have protected themselves in some manner, I may be able to go that route. Anyone willing to share their secrets?

Mark

University of Alaska Fairbanks
 

Hi Mark,

Rick and Brent,Thanks for your facts, advice and support. I came from an outdoor program that was staffed by volunteer student leaders. I totally understand that volunteers can be as productive and safe as paid student staff by creating the right culture. I just need to convince my Risk Management department of this. Anymore evidence regarding volunteer student leaders for all trips, not just orientation, would be much appreciated. Thanks again.MarkMark OldmixonOutdoor Adventures CoordinatorUAF Wood CenterPO Box 756640Fairbanks, AK 99775W - (907) 474-6027F - (907) 474-5508fnmto@uaf.eduwww.uaf.edu/outdoorBrent Bell wrote:> Hi Mark,>> My data shows about 70-80 colleges use unpaid college student leaders > to lead wilderness/outdoor orientation programs. I know many schools > that have students sign contracts, but really it is the social > expectations that create the commitment to the job, not the $10 an > hour you are going to pay them. I think you could find a lot of > examples of people at the college operating in this manner, like any > student leader of a club or organization, anyone who does work outside > the literal definition of their contract, etc. >> Brent>>>> Brent Bell> Assistant Prof. of Outdoor Education> Dept. of Kinesiology> University of New Hampshire> (603)862-3047> bbell@unh.edu >>>>> On Apr 23, 2008, at 8:22 PM, UnivAK_Fairbanks wrote:>> Ed,>> I'm in the same situation myself right now. UA Statewide has> given me the same road blocks as you, but for every field day. The> student leaders here at UAF lead roughly 35 field days a summer> and HR claims I have to pay them a minimum of 16 hours/day and> that is only if they get 8 hours of un-interrupted sleep. And they> have not been helpful in finding a solution outside of paying the> students. Thankfully, my director found the money for me to pay> the students this year, but I still need to make a more permanent> solution for the coming school year and future summers.>> How many schools out there use student volunteers as trip leaders?> My Risk Management Dept. won't allow volunteers due to their lack> on contract and ability to walk off the job. If I can show that> many other schools are doing this and have protected themselves in> some manner, I may be able to go that route. Anyone willing to> share their secrets?>> Mark>> University of Alaska Fairbanks> >>>>> From the OutdoorEd.com Community http://www.outdoored.com/community>>>>> > From the OutdoorEd.com Community http://www.outdoored.com/community