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Re: Is there a 'Climbing Certification War' starting?

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Is there a 'Climbing Certification War' starting?

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  • Posted by
    on Wed, Feb 20 2008 10:02 AM

    Last month the formation of the Professional Climbing Instructors Association (PCIA) was announced (http://www.outdoored.com/news/templateoe.aspx?articleid=3436) and one of their new initiatives is the PCIA Climbing Wall Instructor™ course. Last week the Climbing Wall Association (CWA) in collaboration with the American Mountain Guides Association (AMGA) just announced a Climbing Wall Instructor (CWI) Certification Program (http://www.outdoored.com/news/templateoe.aspx?articleid=3507). Now that the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD war is over (Blu-Ray won), is this the next conflict? What do people think this means for the industry?

    --------------- Rick Curtis CEO OutdoorEd.com Director, Princeton University Outdoor Action Program
    ,
  • Posted by
    on Wed, Feb 20 2008 2:04 PM
    Message
    All-
     
    In general, I am in favor of the formation of another resource by which climbing instructors can find professional certification and instruction. The original Top Rope Site Manager course that the AMGA created was/is the most practical training &certification option they offer. The reality is that 90% (my SWAG estimation) of climbing participation days are done in a top-rope managed activity, not on some Grade VI alpine wall in the middle of the North Cascades (which is primarily where the AMGA has focussed it's energies over the years).
     
    There has been a longstanding resistance within the AMGA to developing the TRSM (now Single Pitch Instructor) program amongst the old guard, and though a few people in the program have persisted with trying to develop it, the AMGA has not devoted enough resources to it (IMO). The primary drivers of the new PCIA are closely connected with the old TRSM development, and I am quite confident in their technical expertise to develop such a program and certification.
     
    Having said all this, I do have concerns that the 'certification war' that it may create is potentially detrimental to the overall effort to have the outdoor adventure industry gain better recognition by the mainstream world (whatever that is). While I understand the PCIA does not intend to be seen as a competing certifying agency, and would like to build reciprocal relationships with the AMGA, it is yet to be seen as to whether this will actually happen. (Having been in the climbing industry for a long time, I fear that the strong egos and posturing may not allow this to happen.) As we have all witnessed in the case of organizations such as ACCT & PRCA, or the earlier AMGA-USMGA tiff, these kinds of turf wars are not particularly becoming of an industry that is working hard toward broader recognition.
     
    Bottom line- more training opportunities from qualified training organizations is a good thing. I welcome the PCIA, and wish it well.

    _________________________________________
    John Jacobs
    Adventure Risk Management
    PO Box 1160
    Idyllwild, California  92549
    www.adventureriskmanagement.com
    jjacobs@adventureriskmanagement.com
    951.659.4090
    951.659.4091 fax

    Adventure, Smarter.

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Rick Curtis [mailto:bounce-Rick_Curtis@outdoored.com]
    Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:06 AM
    To: jjacobs@adventureriskmanagement.com
    Subject: [General Forum] Is there a 'Climbing Certification War' starting?

    Last month the formation of the Professional Climbing Instructors Association (PCIA) was announced (http://www.outdoored.com/news/templateoe.aspx?articleid=3436) and one of their new initiatives is the PCIA Climbing Wall Instructor™ course. Last week the Climbing Wall Association (CWA) in collaboration with the American Mountain Guides Association (AMGA) just announced a Climbing Wall Instructor (CWI) Certification Program (http://www.outdoored.com/news/templateoe.aspx?articleid=3507). Now that the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD war is over (Blu-Ray won), is this the next conflict? What do people think this means for the industry?




    _________________________________________ John Jacobs Adventure Risk Management PO Box 1160 Idyllwild, CA 92549 951.659.4090 Adventure, Smarter.
  • Posted by
    on Wed, Feb 20 2008 2:44 PM
    Good points John. It's interesting to see the differences in other areas like First Aid and Avalanche Training. A WFR certification means the same thing eveywhere even though there are many different companies teaching to the same standard. Also the American Institute for Avalanche Research and Education (AIARE) has gotten the various stakeholders to agree to what should be taught and then various companies and programs teach the curriculum. What makes me nervous is "competing" certifications and one trying to establish dominance over another. I'd much rather see collaboration as you said around things like what a Climbing Wall Instructor is supposed to know and let both organizations offer that course instead of each one trying to be ' Blu-Ray over HD-DVD."
     
    ---------------------------------------
    Rick Curtis
    Director, Outdoor Action Program
    Princeton University
    609-258-5621
    http://www.princeton.edu/~oa/
     
    --------------- Rick Curtis CEO OutdoorEd.com Director, Princeton University Outdoor Action Program
  • Posted by
    on Thu, Dec 4 2008 5:34 AM

    Dear Rick,

    As a Director of a climbing school and guide service, the more options my guides and instructors have for training and certification the better. First of all, no guide makes much money, so more training and cert organizations mean potentially lower costs for trainings and certs. Secondly, as professionals seeking education, we all deserve  choices, for example, I attended three different colleges before I found one I really liked. Third  of all, no employer I have know has ever cared where anyone obtained a college degree  from, all they care about is that you have one. Last and far from least, with more rock climbing guide and/or instructor training and cert organizations in existence, the more they will all be driven to produce the best programs possible. The existence of PCGI - Professional Climbing Guides Institute www.climbingguidesinstitute.org and PCIA www.pcia.us are net a very good thing for the rock climbing guide industry and general public.

    Sincerely,

    Zeke Federman

    Director - Sierra Rock Climbing School, Inc

    www.sierrarockclimbingschool.com

  • Posted by
    on Sun, Jul 22 2012 5:06 PM

    Rick, et al.,

    Different organizations may offer various forms of guiding certification, but the specific certification needed by a given guide depends on his/her context. I originally earned AMGA Single Pitch Certification when I was guiding in Utah, which was the only choice at the time (2007). Top-Rope certification would not have been sufficient in my guiding context at the time, as none of the crags there were accessible via top rope. Five years later, I now guide at Devils Lake in WI, where everything is top-rope accessible. Furthermore, I work for myself, and thus do not have a large company to insure me. At this point, PCGI certification Top Rope certification makes more sense because 1) I don't need more advanced training for my guiding context, and 2) PCGI offers an affordable insurance option that other certifying bodies do not. This last provision is extremely valuable; while the AMGA seemed to be trying to make certification expensive and difficult so as to make independent guiding more difficult, PCGI helps guides work for themselves by providing reasonable insurance options. So even though no certifying body is trying to dominate in its authority to certify, it's possible some organizations will offer guides more value in going through their particular organization. And that kind of competition, where organizations are trying to find more and more ways to bring value to certification, is very good for guides.

    Best,

    Nick Wilkes

    Owner, Devils Lake Climbing Guides
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